Ian nodded. "If you accept the Chara is narrator theory... then it becomes clear to see a turning point then. Chara is nearly silent during that fight, resistant. But when Undyine turns to dust... Chara seems to start to change after that point. Rather than getting more and more pessimistic and withdrawn as had happened so far... the narration seems to urge the player on more and more to keep killing. Again it is subtle... well... until Flowey it is subtle."
This... was hard. Emotionally as well as difficult to remember. Ian hadn't revisited anything to do with Undertale in ages, except to poke at Deltarune a bit.
"When the player character is fighting King Asgore in a Geno, before the player can finish him off... Flowey kills him. Now there was a bit at the beginning of the fight where Asgore told the player character that a little yellow flower warned him. We even get the line 'What kind odmonster are you, I'm sorry, I can't tell'... Which in the larger context is interesting and if we were discussing Flowey or Asgore directly we could probably deep dive that. But... when Flowey kills Asgore just before the player can... Flowey is desperate, almost pleading. Saying he did it to help you... you being the player, promising he never betrayed the player and pleading for his life. Now this next part I have to take on hearsay because I honestly never had the heart to finish a Geno run. But apparently the player character then murder Flowey, no matter what the player holding the controller tries to do. And where all other deaths are finished in a single slash... Flowey is brutally diced up in one of the closest things to actual gore the game ever shows. I'd have to go back and look, but I can't recall off the top of my had any time we see any monster bleed expect Flowey and Sans in Geno."
Did... they have copy of Undertale installed? That could be useful if... no. Right. The Elden Ring patch had needed more space and this was the travel system...
"Anyway... It only gets worse from there. And there is a whole thing that is now disturbing in a whole new way knowing Sans is actually real where Sans absolutely breaks the 4th wall. Well... okay end game Sans always did, but not as badly as in Geno. Sans explains that normal video game terms like Level and EXP have different meanings here. In a regular game you get EXP or XP as you proceed through the game and it stands for experience points. The theory is that you learn and get stronger as you progress, again in most games that's by killing Monsters. In Undertale that much is the same. You get zero EXP in Pacifist. And in normal games when you get a certain amount of XP you level up, your level number gets higher and so do a lot of your stats. You'll get stronger, have more hit points so it takes more damage to kill you, gain new abilities. In most games you want to go up levels as fast as you can. What Sans explains however..."
Ian really really wished they had a coffee. Or a week to replay and deep dive Youtube and Reddit and a few other sources. But this was all they had.
"Sans explains that here, EXP stands for Execution Points. Which, I mean... fair. LV which players presumed meant level til that point is needlessly complicated, because it actually stands for LOVE. Which itself stands for... Levels Of Violence. And you have no idea how much I wish I was making that up. Anyway, the theory behind why you still get more LV when you hit certain EXP thresholds is that it is, again as of this game, I am not and have never been a psychology major, that the more you kill the easier it is to keep killing. Kind of the bloodier version of if all you have is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail. There were other acronyms in the game that mostly don't matter here, except this one theory I read on reddit one time that theorized that HP wasn't hit points but Hope. And that you die when you are out of HP because you need hope to live, and honestly I kind of like that theory."
"Anyway, so Sans then gives one of the most quoted lines in the game. Basically saying how nice it is out and how on a beautiful day like today he's going to absolutely kill you. I have no clue how h'd react on a neutral run if his brother was one of the ones he killed cause I've found conflicting sources and was never able to bring myself to kill Papyrus, and all things considered with what I know now, I am extraordinarily grateful that I got too emotionally invested in the lives of little 8 bit graphics characters to kill most of them... Anyway... So Sans gives his little speech and the undeniably best scored and hardest to win fight in the game begins. And Sans just stomps all over all game tropes for how boss battles are played. Like he attacks with his strongest attack right out of the gate. And then is exhausted by it and comments on maybe that's why it is usually held back for the end. He only has 1 HP but he is nearly impossible to actually hit. He taunts you the whole time... I watched other people play this fight and even having no stakes in it myself it was beyond intense. Helps that the fight also has the best music in the whole game. I might actually even still have a copy on my phone."
Wait, were they misrecalling the order? Well, too late now.
"There is a way to beat Sans eventually. He's figured out that every time he kills the player character, the character's determination is so strong that they reset to the beginning of the fight. And can I just ay for the record how both creepy and cool it is that Sans is aware of this? Like Flowey makes sense. Asgore... there are hints that he maybe gets it, but Sans? Out right spells it out. And says that he decided that given that the best way to beat you is to just... stop. Stop fighting. Because he taps into the game logic and does something that would never work if this wasn't a turn based game. He sits down and refuses to take his turn, because if he doesn't attack you, if he doesn't act.. you're stuck, the game can't go on. And he plans to just keep you there for eternity. Or, you know until you decide killing him isn't worth it and you shut down the game, walk away and leave him alone in the empty barren Underground. This game can get dark on so many levels. And I don't mean of violence."
"The way to beat him is actually real world determination. You have to wait him out while trying to do anything for... I don't remember how long, but a while. He eventually falls asleep and you can inch your small character box over to the attack button. Which I mean, if you had grown up playing games you would have some idea of how seriously intensely innovative and messed up this whole fight is."
It was almost like being home for a moment. Ian shook off that thought - and memories of trying to get Jenn to actually play Undertale and not hack it just to skip to the end to get out of it - and focused on the story again.
"Anyway, after a lot of really slow progress you get to the attack button and Sans is asleep and like I said, he only has 1 HP. So since he doesn't dodge in his sleep, you actually get to hit him for the first time. A slash of blood, blood coming from his mouth - and not only is this the second time we actually see blood in the game that I recall but why in the Underground is a SKELETON bleeding exactly?" A small huff. "Anyway, heartbreakingly he talks to his brother who you killed earlier, about getting a burger at Grillby's though Grillby is certainly dead as well, and when I say you I mean the player, of course. This game muddies it all up. Then he goes off screen to turn to dust. And that...."
Ian leaned back, not quite wanting to look Foulques in the face for this one, "That is when Chara talks directly to the player. Not the player character, the Player. A dark room. Chara is the only thing you see besides their text box. The sound design is haunting. Eerie. Chara thanks the player. Says that the players power awakened them from death. Chara says that at first they were so confused, their plan had failed and they wondered why they were brought back. Which strongly implies to me that they were not awake for all of Flowey's groundhog day adventures. Chara..." this was so much harder knowing they were talking about an actual small child that Foulques knew and cared about. "Chara told the player that it was them, their guidance made them understand why they were reincarnated. What their purpose was. Power. That together they got stronger by murdering everyone. I think Chara used the word enemies, which in context tells you how far they'd fallen. Ah... pun not intended there. Chara says that every time a stat number increased, like EXP, the feeling the player felt then... that was Chara, coming closer to the surface. Then there is one line I absolutely remember. Chara tells the player that they are at the end, the absolute and says 'let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next. The player is then given 2 choices. Erase or Do Not. Now, I heard one youtuber say how the original plan Toby Fox, the game creator, had was that if you picked erase it would actually erase the game from your computer along with all your save files. He was talked out of it, given people would be paying for the game and might not be able to just redownload it. Of course what killing a single Monster does to your save data even if you restart the game, that might have been preferable. Because if you finish Geno and start a new game... the game remembers and you can never get a true pacifist ending. Anyway. if the player chooses do not... Chara says 'Hmmm? How curious. You must have misunderstood. Since When Were You The One In Control?' Which is also about when Chara's eyes disappear. Since there is no voice acting... you have to just imagine the creepy voice change, unless of course you have people online to do it for you." As Ian had done without thinking about it.
"Then of course Chara's face starts melting as they get closer and closer, mouth opening and closing as the screen pulses red and black and the sound gets absolutely horrifying. Then there is the sound that is used when a Monster is killed, but the animation isn't over Chara, it is over a blank screen. Implying... Chara killed the player character. The screen then fills with damage indicators that shake around. The sound goes out, the screen goes black... and it takes a good ten minutes of silence before Chara comes back and advises you to take a different path. And then you can start a new game if you want. If you go Geno again, Chara gets violent much sooner and much more brutal and then insults you at the end. Says that they don't understand why you keep creating this world, just to destroy it. Something about a perverse sentimentality or something, I honestly don't remember and unfortunately can't just look it up here. If you try for a Pacifist run after Geno... There are a few slightly altered possible endings and none of them are good. Toriel ticking the player character in and leaving the room but then the player character rolls over and it isn't Frisk it is post Geno creepy face Chara, with the implication that Toriel is possibly about to die. Or a photograph that had been of Frisk with their new Monster family in a true Pacifist run... except now it is Chara instead of Frisk and everyone else ha their faces obscured by red Xs that look like a child drew them in crayon. Basically, as Sans would say, anything you do after finishing a Geno run mean you're gonna have a bad time."
Ian rubbed at their face. "I... wish what I had to tell you was better given Chara is actually real, apparently. The one bit of hope, if it exists, is that the game seems to imply that Chara can be influenced with time and effort. The player character can turn them from someone who hated Humans but loved and wanted to protect Monsters into someone who hates Monsters and Humans alike and just wants to destroy worlds and gain power. But... The Dreemurrs took the Chara who hated Humans and just wanted to die... and turned them into a kind and self sacrificing soul that... okay still hated humans, and I suspect denied their own humanity... but... still, a kid trying to be good, a kid full of love rather than LOVE. If that makes sense."
no subject
This... was hard. Emotionally as well as difficult to remember. Ian hadn't revisited anything to do with Undertale in ages, except to poke at Deltarune a bit.
"When the player character is fighting King Asgore in a Geno, before the player can finish him off... Flowey kills him. Now there was a bit at the beginning of the fight where Asgore told the player character that a little yellow flower warned him. We even get the line 'What kind odmonster are you, I'm sorry, I can't tell'... Which in the larger context is interesting and if we were discussing Flowey or Asgore directly we could probably deep dive that. But... when Flowey kills Asgore just before the player can... Flowey is desperate, almost pleading. Saying he did it to help you... you being the player, promising he never betrayed the player and pleading for his life. Now this next part I have to take on hearsay because I honestly never had the heart to finish a Geno run. But apparently the player character then murder Flowey, no matter what the player holding the controller tries to do. And where all other deaths are finished in a single slash... Flowey is brutally diced up in one of the closest things to actual gore the game ever shows. I'd have to go back and look, but I can't recall off the top of my had any time we see any monster bleed expect Flowey and Sans in Geno."
Did... they have copy of Undertale installed? That could be useful if... no. Right. The Elden Ring patch had needed more space and this was the travel system...
"Anyway... It only gets worse from there. And there is a whole thing that is now disturbing in a whole new way knowing Sans is actually real where Sans absolutely breaks the 4th wall. Well... okay end game Sans always did, but not as badly as in Geno. Sans explains that normal video game terms like Level and EXP have different meanings here. In a regular game you get EXP or XP as you proceed through the game and it stands for experience points. The theory is that you learn and get stronger as you progress, again in most games that's by killing Monsters. In Undertale that much is the same. You get zero EXP in Pacifist. And in normal games when you get a certain amount of XP you level up, your level number gets higher and so do a lot of your stats. You'll get stronger, have more hit points so it takes more damage to kill you, gain new abilities. In most games you want to go up levels as fast as you can. What Sans explains however..."
Ian really really wished they had a coffee. Or a week to replay and deep dive Youtube and Reddit and a few other sources. But this was all they had.
"Sans explains that here, EXP stands for Execution Points. Which, I mean... fair. LV which players presumed meant level til that point is needlessly complicated, because it actually stands for LOVE. Which itself stands for... Levels Of Violence. And you have no idea how much I wish I was making that up. Anyway, the theory behind why you still get more LV when you hit certain EXP thresholds is that it is, again as of this game, I am not and have never been a psychology major, that the more you kill the easier it is to keep killing. Kind of the bloodier version of if all you have is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail. There were other acronyms in the game that mostly don't matter here, except this one theory I read on reddit one time that theorized that HP wasn't hit points but Hope. And that you die when you are out of HP because you need hope to live, and honestly I kind of like that theory."
"Anyway, so Sans then gives one of the most quoted lines in the game. Basically saying how nice it is out and how on a beautiful day like today he's going to absolutely kill you. I have no clue how h'd react on a neutral run if his brother was one of the ones he killed cause I've found conflicting sources and was never able to bring myself to kill Papyrus, and all things considered with what I know now, I am extraordinarily grateful that I got too emotionally invested in the lives of little 8 bit graphics characters to kill most of them... Anyway... So Sans gives his little speech and the undeniably best scored and hardest to win fight in the game begins. And Sans just stomps all over all game tropes for how boss battles are played. Like he attacks with his strongest attack right out of the gate. And then is exhausted by it and comments on maybe that's why it is usually held back for the end. He only has 1 HP but he is nearly impossible to actually hit. He taunts you the whole time... I watched other people play this fight and even having no stakes in it myself it was beyond intense. Helps that the fight also has the best music in the whole game. I might actually even still have a copy on my phone."
Wait, were they misrecalling the order? Well, too late now.
"There is a way to beat Sans eventually. He's figured out that every time he kills the player character, the character's determination is so strong that they reset to the beginning of the fight. And can I just ay for the record how both creepy and cool it is that Sans is aware of this? Like Flowey makes sense. Asgore... there are hints that he maybe gets it, but Sans? Out right spells it out. And says that he decided that given that the best way to beat you is to just... stop. Stop fighting. Because he taps into the game logic and does something that would never work if this wasn't a turn based game. He sits down and refuses to take his turn, because if he doesn't attack you, if he doesn't act.. you're stuck, the game can't go on. And he plans to just keep you there for eternity. Or, you know until you decide killing him isn't worth it and you shut down the game, walk away and leave him alone in the empty barren Underground. This game can get dark on so many levels. And I don't mean of violence."
"The way to beat him is actually real world determination. You have to wait him out while trying to do anything for... I don't remember how long, but a while. He eventually falls asleep and you can inch your small character box over to the attack button. Which I mean, if you had grown up playing games you would have some idea of how seriously intensely innovative and messed up this whole fight is."
It was almost like being home for a moment. Ian shook off that thought - and memories of trying to get Jenn to actually play Undertale and not hack it just to skip to the end to get out of it - and focused on the story again.
"Anyway, after a lot of really slow progress you get to the attack button and Sans is asleep and like I said, he only has 1 HP. So since he doesn't dodge in his sleep, you actually get to hit him for the first time. A slash of blood, blood coming from his mouth - and not only is this the second time we actually see blood in the game that I recall but why in the Underground is a SKELETON bleeding exactly?" A small huff. "Anyway, heartbreakingly he talks to his brother who you killed earlier, about getting a burger at Grillby's though Grillby is certainly dead as well, and when I say you I mean the player, of course. This game muddies it all up. Then he goes off screen to turn to dust. And that...."
Ian leaned back, not quite wanting to look Foulques in the face for this one, "That is when Chara talks directly to the player. Not the player character, the Player. A dark room. Chara is the only thing you see besides their text box. The sound design is haunting. Eerie. Chara thanks the player. Says that the players power awakened them from death. Chara says that at first they were so confused, their plan had failed and they wondered why they were brought back. Which strongly implies to me that they were not awake for all of Flowey's groundhog day adventures. Chara..." this was so much harder knowing they were talking about an actual small child that Foulques knew and cared about. "Chara told the player that it was them, their guidance made them understand why they were reincarnated. What their purpose was. Power. That together they got stronger by murdering everyone. I think Chara used the word enemies, which in context tells you how far they'd fallen. Ah... pun not intended there. Chara says that every time a stat number increased, like EXP, the feeling the player felt then... that was Chara, coming closer to the surface. Then there is one line I absolutely remember. Chara tells the player that they are at the end, the absolute and says 'let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next. The player is then given 2 choices. Erase or Do Not. Now, I heard one youtuber say how the original plan Toby Fox, the game creator, had was that if you picked erase it would actually erase the game from your computer along with all your save files. He was talked out of it, given people would be paying for the game and might not be able to just redownload it. Of course what killing a single Monster does to your save data even if you restart the game, that might have been preferable. Because if you finish Geno and start a new game... the game remembers and you can never get a true pacifist ending. Anyway. if the player chooses do not... Chara says 'Hmmm? How curious. You must have misunderstood. Since When Were You The One In Control?' Which is also about when Chara's eyes disappear. Since there is no voice acting... you have to just imagine the creepy voice change, unless of course you have people online to do it for you." As Ian had done without thinking about it.
"Then of course Chara's face starts melting as they get closer and closer, mouth opening and closing as the screen pulses red and black and the sound gets absolutely horrifying. Then there is the sound that is used when a Monster is killed, but the animation isn't over Chara, it is over a blank screen. Implying... Chara killed the player character. The screen then fills with damage indicators that shake around. The sound goes out, the screen goes black... and it takes a good ten minutes of silence before Chara comes back and advises you to take a different path. And then you can start a new game if you want. If you go Geno again, Chara gets violent much sooner and much more brutal and then insults you at the end. Says that they don't understand why you keep creating this world, just to destroy it. Something about a perverse sentimentality or something, I honestly don't remember and unfortunately can't just look it up here. If you try for a Pacifist run after Geno... There are a few slightly altered possible endings and none of them are good. Toriel ticking the player character in and leaving the room but then the player character rolls over and it isn't Frisk it is post Geno creepy face Chara, with the implication that Toriel is possibly about to die. Or a photograph that had been of Frisk with their new Monster family in a true Pacifist run... except now it is Chara instead of Frisk and everyone else ha their faces obscured by red Xs that look like a child drew them in crayon. Basically, as Sans would say, anything you do after finishing a Geno run mean you're gonna have a bad time."
Ian rubbed at their face. "I... wish what I had to tell you was better given Chara is actually real, apparently. The one bit of hope, if it exists, is that the game seems to imply that Chara can be influenced with time and effort. The player character can turn them from someone who hated Humans but loved and wanted to protect Monsters into someone who hates Monsters and Humans alike and just wants to destroy worlds and gain power. But... The Dreemurrs took the Chara who hated Humans and just wanted to die... and turned them into a kind and self sacrificing soul that... okay still hated humans, and I suspect denied their own humanity... but... still, a kid trying to be good, a kid full of love rather than LOVE. If that makes sense."